✅ McJob
I haven't had a job in a long time. I've managed to make some money here and there, but times are getting tough and it is past time I start working.
Getting a job today is easier said than done. I've applied to a bunch of roles at companies I am excited about and I feel lucky if they even bother to send a rejection notice. At this point my morale is low and I could really use a win.
So this is a proposal to apply at McDonald's.
After doing Hamburger Business Review I have a new found respect for the institution. But mostly I’m tired of earning no money. I don’t want to feel like I’m financially useless. I’m humble enough to return to my roots and take an entry level job at McDonald’s.
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I applied and I got the job.
I believe this is a good opportunity to defray some of life's costs through staff meals, and to see how far this young man can rise in the ranks as he applies himself. The Hamburger Business Review will be a funny anecdote when he is hitting the links of the McResort and sinking birdies with Birdie the Early Bird.
One nice thing about living in California is that this is now a $20 hour job.
How does the application process work? Do you apply to a single location? Or will you be applying to multiple locations?
I am in support of this. Which location will you apply to if the vote is successful?
Also, if this is successful (both in vote and in hiring) I look forward to how this could inform the content of future seasons of Hamburger Business Review. Including potentially first-hand insight into what sells most, what causes employees the most grief, and why McDonalds corporate seems so lenient on the Hamburglar, a man clearly in need of treatment for a substance use disorder.
This could be very valuable info for the market.
I am in support of this, go get 'em Mike. Putting aside your past experience there and the "sexiness" of the McDonald's brand tho, I wonder if there are any other fast food / burger joints worth considering? On a side note, the McDonald's in my neighborhood here in Sweden is in pretty good shape, very clean, and has a ton of menu options I'd never seen, like The Tasty, The Dubbel Tasty, and The McFeast
This sounds horrible and I'm also in the same position. I've been applying for jobs for the State of California. That's a long and slow process. I'm thinking of applying for Grocery Outlet and the Dollar Store because both of those are walkable from my house. Plus dealing with the general public is horrible and it will motivate me.
So at the end of the day I'll vote yes because you have to what you need to in order to pay the bills.
But I would be interested to hear how this will change any long term plans, etc. As in, are you thinking it will be a short/medium term job? When would you start looking for the next thing?
If it is a long term thing, then I'm curious why you are going for McDonalds instead of coffee shops, etc. obviously there is the podcast, but I want to make sure you are happy going into work if at all possible.
As a 2+ year unemployed person, my greatest advice is this: TAKE THE FUCKING MONEY MIKE HOLY SHIT PLEASE IF YOU CAN GET A JOB JUST TAKE THE DAMN MONEY.
Is Dune hiring?
Belly of the beast! Let's go!
to sum up the votes so far: there are no shareholders who DON'T want you to work at McDonald's
I am happy that (so far) there are zero 'No' votes.
I will also ask Mayor McCheese if they'll let you keep your original hire date.
36 shareholders have voted so far. They've all voted yes. I'm the 37th shareholder to vote. I'm voting no.
Mike is certainly correct that making any money above $20K is better than making his current “below $20K.” And if we were in a recession right now, I’d vote yes.
But last month’s U6 unemployment rate was 7.8%. For context, the lowest it's ever been in the 21st century is 6.5%. So we're only slightly above the lowest unemployment rate of Mike's entire adult lifetime: https://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate_u6.jsp
As a result, there are TONS of job options which better utilize your impressive skill set. Especially if you open the gates wide and consider industries you've never even worked in before.
For example, you're a great writer. Maybe something in journalism, perhaps? Or public relations? Or writing informational leaflets available at national parks for the U.S. Forest Service? (Fun fact: the federal government is the country’s largest employer of writers.)
Even if it's not a traditional "job,” this modern world allows for myriad paid opportunities. Drive for a ride-share company. Participate in medical studies that pay participants. Sign up for an account on TaskRabbit or Craigslist to do people's random tasks for pay: hanging picture frames on walls, lifting boxes when they move, pet-sitting when they’re out of town.
In fact, I’m doing just that later today. In about three hours, I’m going to a local nursing home to play piano for pay, for their Thursday afternoon music events. The opportunities are endless.
You also have an expansive network, including more than 1,000 shareholders. Ask them if they're hiring. Or if they know someone who is. Most people get jobs through friends, or through "friends of friends."
There’s a McDonald's in my neighborhood, right down the street. I see who works there. It's not you, A late 40-something intellectual? From what I can tell, outside of the GM, a late 20-something would be the oldest employee there.
Now, if you wanted to work at McDonald’s for a day or a week, just to "prove a point" or write an article about the experience, that's a different story. Colbert worked for a day as a farm laborer in the blazing sun, for a segment about immigrant working conditions in the agricultural industry.
But to make McDonald's your actual job? On a regular, indefinite basis? You would be in absolute misery. I can’t vote for that.
To be clear, I'm not voting for you to remain unemployed! On the other end of the spectrum, I’m also not saying you need to hold out for the most amazing job: six-figure salary, corner office, health insurance, pension, 401(k). I'm just saying it needs to NOT BE MCDONALD'S.
The company’s website says: “There are no minimum qualifications needed to join McDonald’s.” But there are de facto maximum qualifications. You exceed them. By a wide margin. Spielberg doesn’t direct cat food commercials.
To be clear, I'm not saying it needs to me an amazing job, which pays six-figures, with health insurance, with benefits, with a 401(k). I'm saying it needs to NOT BE MCDONALD'S.
there are no minimum qualifications needed to join McDonald’s.”
Yeah, I don’t really get it — McDonalds as a re-starting place — and am voting No.
Your skills (and our shares by extension) are better served by almost anything else.
Once you have a job that will be physically exhausting (I think it will) then you’re gonna have less energy (and time) to pursue a different course. Maybe you’ll have more motivation, but motivation will then need to overcome the exhaustion (and fry smell).
You talked about applying to jobs, but didn’t go into any details. Feels weird to have so many details about this potential “win” but almost none about the non-wins when making this call; where have you applied? What kind of job are you looking for? And really, what do you want to do?
I have an RSS feed of “4 day a week” jobs that get listed here: https://4dayweek.io/jobs
I read the titles as part of my daily intake just to see “what’s out there” and I have for-sure seen jobs out there that you could do and already have the skills to accomplish well. Will you get them? Of course not all, but maybe one?
I don’t know — I want you to have a job, but I want you to have a job you can grow in, and don’t see this as that.
Big tasty double bacon.
One of the items from the menu @ macdonalds in Switzerland.
i’ll be honest. this feels like either desperation or fishing for attention.
if you have a business degree there are many other types of jobs to apply for.
that said, if you apply to mcdonalds then use your business degree as supporting qualifications to be a manager.
A social scientist selling burgers all day, every week, in an ever growing admiration of the company. Learning more each day. I do not believe you.
Also voting no, and endorsing both jesserifkin and pat's comments. I like the idea and understand the mental benefits of working, earning and feeling valuable, but think there are ways to do this that wont be so draining, and ideally work, in some way, towards further career goals. While I tend to frown on the social ramifications of "gig work", it might be interesting for Mike to offer services on something like Upwork where he can hone valuable skills that will ultimately benefit KMikeyM shareholders. Just looking at the upwork website there are things like marketing manager, project management, marekting analytics, video editing???
Follow your dreams
As the podcast cohost, I am abstaining due to a conflict of interest.
I still want to use this textarea to address the dissenting comments above. In the most concrete and short term of accountings we're right to be concerned about whether Mike will be more profitable (and K5M more valuable) if he is exhausted all the time. Through collaborating on the podcast, though, I think there is sufficient evidence that Mike is more than a little bit curious about the ethos and spirit of McDonald's. I suspect he is looking to answer such questions as: Were his early work experiences formative? Will the actual work bring him closer to the spirit he knows from case studies and Ray Kroc biographies? Will they even hire him?
I believe Mike needs answers to these questions, and the sooner he gets them the sooner he can move on (or up), which is what K5M needs at this moment.
Although I am absolutely in support of Mike breaking through his funk, seeking advice and speaking openly about his employment situation with his shareholders, and wanting to try something new, I voted "No" simply because I would be sad to see Mike working for a company that wreaks so much ecological and human carnage. Beyond my own ethical objections, I feel this does not reflect positively on the KMikeyM brand.
I am voting NO and I encourage all YES votes to change your vote, if not for the moral obligation to avoid cheerleading a company that's actively destroying the planet through factory farming and global deforestation, but for Mike's suffering. I initially voted YES because I'm a fan of novelty, and for this project's specific flavor of weird ideas that we can all vicariously live through Mike...but fuck McDonald's. If there were an added dimension to this project that could maybe be something, but this exact thing has been done before. What's the take? Where's the critique?
I do think it's scary and a bit brave to want to pursue this, and also to even bring it to a vote, but I think the whole thing is misguided.
Why can't we collectively get Mike a job? What is this whole thing for if not to activate community and support for Mike?
It's clear how many people in this thread have never been legitimately poor. The replies read like the pre-amble to a DNC strategy meeting.
Yes, we as a community may be able to find a way to get Mike real work. Even if that were to happen though, when would it happen? Does that align with Mike and Catherine's timelines?
If you have something available then let's make it happen. Otherwise, what would you do in this situation?
Any option to earn money when you are tight on funds should be treated with sincerity. This whole situation may be somewhat clouded by the KMikeyM-ness of it all, but this is some real shit and I don't think that should be discounted.
Just because we might believe Mike is of the caliber to get a much higher quality role doesn't mean the market will accommodate. This is America, after all!
But sure, HOW WILL THIS AFFECT THE KMIKEYM BRAND?!?! Some of y'all here are wildly out of touch with how insanely fucking difficult these last couple of years have been for some people, and how rough it continues to be.
A few final notes:
Speaking from experience as someone with 10+ years in startup operations who found myself interviewing with In N' Out and applying to all the other fast food joints desperate for talent in my area. You can tailor your resume all you want by the way, they know who is malleable and who is not.
Money is money at the end of the day. For the naysayers, would you feel better if Mike could earn the same wages as a card dealer at a casino? Cleaning bathrooms at a school? Doing manual labor? What does it matter at the end of the day if Mike can keep pushing forward?
On a related note, this sure sounds like a temporary measure. I don't see Mike as the kind of person to be a lifer at a fast food joint.
It turns out you can do other things even if you have a job -- like searching for another job! Wowee!
"It's clear how many people in this thread have never been legitimately poor.”
This is insane presumptive name calling and attacking other shareholders — as someone who’s against this proposal and grew up poor and has worked at fast food places — I find it offensive, It’s a bullshit take. Out of touch? Dude, this attack on other shareholders is insane and uncalled for.
Yeah, Pat! Your comment sucks, Zach. I grew up in a gas station working every job from pumping gas, working in the deli, selling Christmas trees and fireworks, and then eventually running a venue above the gas station introduced me to the independent music community that changed my life. I didn’t go to high school or college and I’ve been self employed and extremely financially precarious since 2002. Also I’ve known, lived with, worked with, am currently working with, and have been close with Mike since 2000. I’m coming from a place of knowing more than he shares and wanting the best for him. Claire and I got him his last salary job!!!
Then you all should know it's completely unfair to see this as something that's below or unfitting of Mike given current circumstances.
Attack on other shareholders? It's a call for reflection, and maybe a little more empathy than you think you're granting.
I understand why you'd vote no. I really do. I'd never felt more low than applying for jobs I was well overqualified for, and losing them to a teenager when I needed to feed my family.
But at the end of the day we need to do whatever needs to be done. If you have solid and practical solutions for Mike, please share them.
The job market continues to be absolutely brutal despite whatever statistics we might share, and for creatives it only continues to get worse. I want Mike to end up in a better situation. I also recognize the reality and the importance of needing to stay alive so you can realize the next long-term position.
> What's the take? Where's the critique?
Jona, I've been thinking about this all day. I can't help but extend the question to HBR and my other hamburger-centric projects. If the lack of apparent critique is a central problem to this proposal, I might have something to offer here.
In Bottomless Burgers (2017-2019) the practical tension was between offering infinite hamburgers and providing finite hamburgers without an unbearable average loss. Some patrons seemed to have hoped for a leaderboard, competition, marketing to big eaters, and an overall egging on to eat more hamburgers. But that would have been bad for business. What I tried to offer instead was a respite from the crisp transactionality of a single order for a single price: a way to put the familiar Los Angeles charburger experience into a different system of nourishment and exchange. (I won't be coy about what "familiar" means here: it means a not-too-different network of extraction from McDonald's.)
Was that a critique? Was the whole endeavor in need of redemption? I think the same questions could be asked about Hamburger Business Review. Is distinguishing McDonald's as a subject for special contemplation not just getting our listeners to think about McDonald's more often, and maybe even hit the drive thru on their way home? Are we in some sort of ecological podcasting debt that can be offset by our message?
To see Mike getting a job as "cheerleading" for McDonald's is, I think, to see the situation as one of referents and synergistic brand strategies. Maybe that's the point of K5M, or at least part of its culture.
I see this proposal is about Mike's curiosity and struggle for self-identity and individuation. In his immediate reference to Barbara Ehrenreich he seems fully aware, as you say, that "this exact thing has been done before." If he were satisfied with Ehrenreich's conclusions I think he would have stopped there. My analysis of this proposal, which is again heavily influenced by my time podcasting with it's author, is that like wearing Brooks Brothers or registering Republican, there's a territory he wants to explore yet feels he could only do with the permission of his community.
Would I grant Mike permission to firebomb the Amazon just to see how it feels? No. But where to draw the line and for what reasons is, I guess, our call to make.
By the way I never called anyone names. I'm not attacking individuals, I'm challenging perspectives. We're all here for the same reason.
Zach, if you don’t see how "It's clear how many people in this thread have never been legitimately poor” isn’t an attack then you really need to rethink your approach. I’m literally telling you it feels like an attack. Jona felt the same way. You’re not “challenging perspectives’ you’re making presumptions about people’s background that are clearly wildly off base. And really, you ranting about how somehow we were never poor isn’t changing anyone’s perspective.
“Maybe a little more empathy than you think you're granting” Wait, who am I suppose to be granting empathy to? You? Mikey?
"I also recognize the reality and the importance of needing to stay alive” implies we somehow all want him to... die? Your use of hyperbole is stunning.
The question posed isn’t “any job to stay alive” it’s “working at McDonald’s because it’s kinda funny” and sounds like you are conflating the two.
"What does it matter at the end of the day if Mike can keep pushing forward?” — Mike has clearly laid out that this is not, in fact, pushing forward. It’s going back to his first job.
If you are trying to explain your position and include the phrase "As an olive branch to all the people that now think I'm an asshole” — you know on some level you are being an asshole.
This is one of my favorite project votes in years. Generally speaking, when Mike a project in mind that is clearly within the scope of his (capital P) Practice, I think shareholders should support him.
I think McJob has the potential to be a major chapter in the whole story of KmikeyM.
It's reductive to see any given Mike project as merely a troll, but trolling always a strong element. Yes, the McJob proposal is a troll. He's trolling something. What is it?
I think the intellectual stem cell of this KmikeyM was developed the first time he put on a suit and tie to socially represent himself in his early bohemian days in early aughts Portland. His social clique at the time was comprised of lefty artists and cultural producers (not much has changed, there) who would have reacted negatively to the semiotics of "business guy." So yeah, Mike put hands on a nice blazer and tie, and "trolled" them with this persona.
But he wasn't merely trolling. He was willingly embracing an ignominious social role and systematically redeeming it through a series of arguments and actions in its favor. Open contest, voting, participation - all of which are good aspects of free markets.
And here we all are living inside of this argument on a comment thread, years later.
Now that the Creative Business Guy archetype has been somewhat redeemed by society 20 years on, what's the next shat-upon, socially abject role to examine? The shit-jobber. And this is deeply personal for Mike.
This is why it has to be McDonald's. Working at a fast casual vegan place isn't really that socially challenging. But can you feel the shame that would be entailed with telling someone's parents that you work at McDonald's? Like, on the grill? It's not shameful because of their environmental record. It's shameful because it's low status, menial labor.
Should that be shameful?
Mcdonald's is like, a Jungian shadow-job. And Mike was born to explore this particular depth.
For those of us that subsist off of fake laptop jobs and wonder if we've really seized any particularly vital means of production can look upon Mike flipping real burgers in a real brick and mortar building and serving them to real hungry Americans and wonder, "which of us has more of a right to feel proud of our work?"
Or maybe it'll suck ass so hard that he'll regret all of this high minded analysis and end up begging us to allow him to quit. Regardless, it'll make for some good podcast episodes.
Once a grandiose idea has occurred to him, Mike cannot merely reason his way through its extremities. For better or worse, he has to put his hands on it, directly.
I, for one, really want to watch.
It's a yes for me.
(I love that you can't edit comments. Apologies for the fucked grammar, I wrote that shit on my phone.)
I really appreciate Marcus’s perspective and everything he has to say about Mike’s ideas and thoughtful trolling, but ultimately I vote no for all of the well put reasons of the no voters commenting above. If it’s not socially challenging enough to work at the “fast casual vegan place” or on task rabbit or whatever other low-barrier gigs come to mind, isn’t that almost more socially challenging? Or perhaps spiritually challenging? To accept a job you need without it being quite so unlikely to be enjoyable? Maybe I’m wrong that you wouldn’t enjoy it, maybe the nostalgia is that strong for you, or maybe it would be interesting to observe the daily business and humanity at a particular McDonald’s. But taking a more tolerable low-status gig wouldn’t mean you can’t continue to look for other work while being a little less stressed (than it feels to be broke) and not miserable (as I imagine I would feel even sitting in a McDonald’s all day).
By “accept a job you need without it being quite so unlikely to be enjoyable” I really meant “without it being a joke,” but I worried that might be unfair, but then I changed my mind. There are other jobs that might feel uncomfortably low-status that aren’t the ultimate shit job / “jungian shadow-job”